TECHNOS—Argonne National Laboratory’s Harold Myron

July 27, 2008

Argonne National Laboratory’s Harold Myron, Director, Division of Educational Programs

Harold Myron, Ph.D., is the Director of the Division of Educational Programs at Argonne National Laboratory (ANL) in Argonne, Illinois. The Laboratory is operated by the University of Chicago for the U.S. Department of Energy, Office of Science [see our Featured Article]. Dr. Myron was born and raised in New York City and attended college at Queens College in New York City. He did his Ph.D. at Iowa State University in Ames, Iowa—an occurrence he admits was “a major culture shock.” Nevertheless, he stayed at Iowa State, became a research assistant at the Ames Lab on campus, and received his doctorate in solid-state physics. His post-doctoral work was done at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois, where he taught freshman physics. Dr. Myron did computational physics throughout his research career and was eventually asked to help set up a research lab in that discipline at the equivalent of the Dutch National Science Foundation at a university in Holland, where he spent eleven years. He then became the head scientist in charge of the large-magnet laboratory at that university for about six years. Upon his return to the United States, he was hired at Argonne at the Division of Educational Programs (DEP), and as a senior program leader helped set up the instructional laboratory at DEP. Dr. Myron often travels to Europe, Holland in particular, and participates in international conferences such as those with the International Atomic Energy Agency. Technos talked to him in August.

Technos: Did you enjoy teaching?

H.M.: Yes, I did. Teaching freshman physics at Northwestern was a lot of fun. In a way it was amusing, because freshman physics is really quite standard. You could wake up in the middle of the night, and someone could ask you a question about physics, and you could answer it and go right back to sleep—that material became part of your psyche, your way of thinking. And you were thinking in Newtonian terms rather than Aristotelian terms. Aristotelian is the way most people think; it’s not cause and effect. There are discussions of Aristotelian physics, which is not physics at all; it’s just very descriptive and not based on experiment. In any event, our society thinks in Aristotelian terms, and so did the students who were taking freshman physics. They were just astonished that they could ask me a question and I could answer it; all of us can.

But, in regards to our Division, in particular the instructional laboratory that we have here—it is a reflection of a multidisciplinary laboratory for educational purposes. So we have accelerators, x-ray machines, all types of analytical chemistry and biological equipment and material science, of course, and the like, using our instructional laboratory. It’s all for students, pre-college and college kids, and it all relates to instructional technology. You can’t do data analysis without computers.

One thing the Division did that was very productive and useful for the district of northeastern Illinois is that when the Internet became available through dial-up access, we with our partners throughout this area, developed a consortium of Internet access for the teachers through their classrooms and their homes using dial-up mechanisms. This was before there was wireless or cable. We had an initial group of 8,000 users who paid an annual fee of $70 to help cover the expenses we had in managing it. We just closed it about a year ago.

So it was sort of an AOL service?

Right. Except it was for teachers only. But it became clear that we’d best serve the community by letting them go to private vendors because of speed, security, liability, and spam and hacker protection. With that consortium, which was considerable, we’re looking for other mechanisms using information technology to keep it going. One thing that I would hope we could do—and we’re doing it in a very small way with the state [of Illinois] and the city of Chicago—is to give lectures using the Internet, in real time, as sort of a “poor man’s” access grid. We’ve had some success already. We’ve linked three schools in Chicago to Argonne and had some panel discussions on how to make a good science-fair project, or what are the issues being discussed at the time, such as what makes good chemistry.

When you say “schools,” you mean high schools, not colleges?

Yes. For high school teachers and kids. Initially it was three public schools, and now it’s exclusively Walter Payton High School in the city [of Chicago].

And this is interactive videoconferencing?

Yes. So you need a robust Internet line, and it was really inexpensive to set up for both us and the schools. If the school has the Internet connection, and upgraded bandwidth, it works like a charm.

I wonder if the other schools in the city district would have the technical capability.

It’s like flipping a coin. Each one is different, and you have to investigate it. The issue was what is called “the last mile”—once it got into the school, you needed the server to complete the connection to the classroom.

It usually takes place in one classroom, rather than a networked group of rooms?

You could do more. We set up a system that could use three classrooms in various locations. So one classroom could be in Russia, for that matter. I see a bright future in videoconferencing technology for teaching. You can imagine that in a rural setting, you might want a French teacher—or a physics teacher, for that matter—and they just don’t have it. So if there is a French teacher to serve all the towns south of Peoria, for example, it could be very economical. I don’t know how the teachers’ unions would look at it, though.

That is an issue.

Sure. And all the other things involved with classroom management, such as behavioral issues, are question marks. But if someone were taking a class like calculus, or French, or physics, I don’t think classroom management would be a huge issue. The kids are pretty much self-motivated and are there to learn. And not every school can afford the language teacher or the specialized science teacher.

Videoconferencing is synchronous delivery. We also are involved with asynchronous delivery. We developed with the U.S. Department of State and the International Atomic Energy Agency [IAEA] CDs or DVDs featuring a series of lectures, including PowerPoint™ presentations and notes, on nuclear security, nuclear safety, and isotope hydrology. We started with CDs because at the time we developed these, not all countries in the world had DVD capability, but essentially it’s the same concept. The IAEA is the group that provides weapons inspectors, and there are various parts of the IAEA. We work with the part of that Agency that does technical cooperation, you might think of that as foreign aid, essentially—how to use water resources, how to do hospital radiology. It’s amazing, in some countries in the Third World, they might have two health physicists in the entire country. So, if you’re an oncologist in a developing country setting a treatment, you have to rely on the health physicist to do it: they have to have a machine, it has to be calibrated, the bad cells have to be located—there are a lot of issues. And if there are only two people in the entire country you’re relying on, it’s valuable to have courses like these on a CD, in asynchronous delivery, to teach others how to do it.

It could be used at any time. You don’t have to be in a certain place at a certain moment to take part in the class.

Right. It could be a refresher course, too. The CD or DVD could be played as a talking-head lecture, or the PowerPoint presentation could be downloaded, and of course, it can all be accessed randomly. You can in principle, because it’s digital, translate it into different languages.

These are our attempts to do asynchronous education, or training, for a wider audience. I don’t know what the need might be in the States for something like this, but I would think it would be very valuable to have a great lecturer to lecture on esoteric subjects to the college level. It would be very valuable to teachers. These topics are so specialized; they would be good for first responders, or for people who are in management positions in a city or state to protect assets.

In terms of the K–12 audience, what are some of DEP’s other activities?

We have something called “Ask A Scientist,” which is online at our Web site, and I really think if I told you that we get a million hits a month, I’d be underestimating the number—it’s probably closer to four million. It’s funded through the Department of Energy’s Office of Science. I get a lot of inquiries via email that way.

You couldn’t possibly answer them all?

No, of course not. I answer just a few. We have volunteers from all over, within Argonne but also outside the Laboratory, within the Department of Energy complex, and within university systems. Typically what happens is that someone will email me and take us to task about a response that we’ve posted—and I’ll invite that person to provide an alternative response, and if it’s valid, I’ll ask him if he’d like to become an “Ask A Scientist” volunteer.

Millions of hits a day means you’re reaching a vast audience.

It’s a very popular site. We were, in fact, featured on the Department of Energy Web page, at the Secretarial level, and there is now a kiosk in the Department lobby in Washington, D.C., that features “Ask A Scientist.” The only complaint we’ve gotten is that the answers aren’t posted immediately. Our volunteers need a little time to read, research, and respond to the inquiries.

Of course, if we had unlimited funds, we could provide an instantaneous response mechanism. What would it take to teach physics to every kid in the United States? A hundred million dollars? Two hundred million? The cost is prohibitive—but we can provide a service like “Ask A Scientist,” manned by volunteers, which can reach a huge audience.

Do you know what the least-liked subjects in school are? Math and science. This tells me that we’re not doing a good job of teaching math, which is the language of all science. The value of math for general schooling is truly incalculable. Yet we’re lagging behind in this country in our math education.

That’s one of the reasons your Division is here, right?

Sure. Among the activities we provide are field trips for schools in northeastern Illinois, their teachers, students and parents. We provide hands-on experiments, demonstrations, and instructional materials for groups of mostly 12 to 17 year olds, but also other educational groups. I like to meet and greet these groups because it’s important that we do what we can to interest kids in science and math.

We also have a Community Affairs section that organizes such things as our upcoming booth at Navy Pier in Chicago, in conjunction with the National Science Teachers Association’s Midwestern Area Convention in November.

We also have undergraduate college internships in which hundreds of students participate. One of the unique things about our internships is the training in safety and security that these students don’t get in their university classes. Those chosen to participate in our internship program are motivated and ready to do science, and here they earn their very first paychecks for doing something they love.

An interesting note about our internship program: We’ve had interns here who’ve gone on to win Nobel prizes. That’s good for us! It means we didn’t turn them off to science.

What is your favorite part of your job here?

When I see a bunch of young people talking about neutrons and x-rays as if they’re good things, and they’re really engaged in the discussion and really enjoying the give and take of the conversation—that, to me, is the best part. I recently spoke to a group of young kids, 14 year olds, who had just completed a seven-week chemistry program we sponsored, and I was talking to them about fluorescence—not something that comes up in everyday conversation at their homes or in their schools—but I was asked a very insightful question by one of the students. So, I answered him. And he asked me a follow-up question. And we went back and forth for a little while, and it was obvious to me that he understood it all and really wanted to know more. If we didn’t have this program, what would he be doing all summer long?

I feel we’re making a difference in these kids’ lives, and I like that. I think motivation for taking part in science is lacking in our schools, but I see it here in our educational programs.

I believe that the strength of democracy is very much based on public education. Good, free, public education will serve our democracy well. For one thing, it directly affects economic development. It’s a key component of why we’re here. A good educational system makes a good citizenry, which will be able to make its own assessment of its government and its society.

What’s your least favorite thing about your job?

Being interviewed! However, this experience was an exception.